A woman once told me, “I like your writing but do you have to talk about that…y’know…that,”
“That thing?” I asked, saving her the embarrassment of having to specify just exactly what she was talking about. Without letting her stew, I cut right to the chase because I knew this was a subject she felt uncomfortable discussing. “Yes, I do," I said, "because I’m not just writing for women, I’m writing for men, too, and this is a tough problem to resolve with our machismo intact. Men who are new to dance, tango in particular, need to know that they are not alone. Women get men excited; it’s how we’re wired."
She blushed politely, wanting to say more but her strong religious upbringing prevented her from continuing.
I started dancing three years after my divorce as a way to meet women as an alternative to online dating. I enrolled in a class on swing dancing and was paired with a beautiful woman with blond hair. A long time acquaintance pulled me aside and asked me how I was able to restrain myself being so close to such an attractive lady. I told him I thought of diving into the ice cold river when I was a young river guide on the Moose River in Upstate New York.
Yes, he was asking me if I was getting a hard-on while I was paired with this woman because he knew that’s what would be happening to him.
A year and a half later I was taking lessons from a professional dance instructor. I was learning a lot about dancing but I was still ‘swimming’ in frigid waters to keep my cool. I was forty-five years old at the time. Two years later I was dancing tango and I was still a member of the Arctic Swim Club for Men.
At fifty-one I’m getting to that point in my life where I wonder how long my dog will hunt. After five years of dancing tango the old boy still chases rabbits but he lets a lot of them stay in the bushes without even raising his tail. Maybe so much tango has inured me to the allure of the opposite sex.
The question here is what to do about arousal while dancing tango. While the rest of the tango community is afraid to broach the subject I am not. Blame it on my lack of education, my troubled youth, heck, you can blame it on the wind for all I care, let the uncensored truth flow from my fingertips.
Your wood is just a lawsuit or a slap in the face waiting to happen so you’ve got to keep it under control. The bizarre fact of the matter is that the opposite sex might appreciate a bulge in the Levis but they can never acknowledge this truth or they’ll be labeled a whore.
That is the current state of affairs and nothing is going to change so get used to it. Here is my advice to my fellow tangueros: mums the word. As long as you don’t say anything, you’re golden. She’s knows what’s going on, she’s a woman: a machine built by God to detect the smallest fib, a boner is not going to escape detection by her radar, believe me.
You’ve got to have some rules for yourself and I’ll tell you a few of mine. I hope you find them useful.
1. If you’re dancing tango with a married woman and your dick begins to stiffen, try to think of her when she’s giving birth to an eleven pound baby boy, screaming at her husband, “You filthy mother fucker!!! You did this to me! I hate you! Oh God!!! You’re gonna pay for this you bastard!!”
2. If you’re with a young lady and wood happens, it is imperative that you reverse the procedure or else you could be traumatized forever. If she looks down and laughs, you may never experience another erection ever again.
3. If you’re with a single woman your age, forget about it. Let the dog out, eventually he’ll get tired and go lay down on the front porch.
4. Last but not least, never, ever tell a woman what is happening. They are bound by laws not written on any paper to reject you publicly and that is a humiliation you do not want to have to face.
There you have it, words of wisdom on the forbidden subject. Now, get your dance shoes on and have some fun. And remember, mums the word.
Wants some more forbidden stuff about tango, check out this book that is breaking all the rules:
Note: For an in-depth look into the mind of the Kayak Hombre(aka perri iezzoni), read his books, available on Amazon; just click the book title to go to the Amazon reviews:
Fear of Intimacy and the Tango Cure
River Tango
How often and for how long have you danced in Buenos Aires? As someone who lives and dances there, I don't share your perspective that it is common and totally acceptable for Argentine men who dance tango to have erections while dancing.
ReplyDeleteOf course, I am not a man. It is also possible that I have danced with many men who had erections and simply couldn't tell (after all there is not much groin contact in tango). Also, it is possible, theoretically, that men get erections when dancing with other women, but never with me. However, I can only say that, in my own experience (and I live and dance here in BA) I have only knowingly danced with a man who had an erection on one single occasion (and that was someone who was my lover and it was also under special circumstances).
As far as attitudes towards this are concerned, I can tell you what I have heard from male and female friends (which may or may not be representative). Men tell me that it is not that easy or common to get an erection when you are concentrating very hard on something not directly sexual, such as dancing. In fact, since the leader has so much multitasking to do when he dances, I think it is probably easier for the follower to become aroused (though of course far less obvious).
On the few occasions that my women friends have reported dancing with someone who had an erection, they have *not* seemed very relaxed about it. On the contrary, it's a reason to break off mid-tanda or even mid-dance -- well, basically, as soon as you realise what's going on the dance is over. And the women then tend to tell their female friends in a spirit of friendly warning: "Ugh! DON'T dance with that guy!"
I also suspect that taking sensual pleasure in the dance and/or finding a woman attractive is perfectly possible without immediately getting an erection. Otherwise, surely, very few men would dance tango?
You are right, then, in Argentina, arousal is not acceptable and I have never been to Argentina. I think I could have expressed my intention better if I had said, “this dance originated in another culture where arousal is not such a big deal..” even that would be incorrect from what you say but it would be more accurate than the statement I did make which was absolutist.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a good discussion to have, especially for those who are new to tango. There are many misconceptions about this dance. I think I just added to that body of evidence but I am honest in my intentions and I believe the overall impact of my essay will be good.
Thanks very much for your prompt reply. There has been some further discussion of your blog entry on my Facebook Timeline. If you'd like to read it, you can friend me (Terpsichoral Tangoaddict) or just check it out without friending me (it's a public update). I'd be very happy to have you join the discussion.
ReplyDeleteI think it's brave and helpful to tackle this topic. And I can imagine that erections may be more common among beginner men who are unused to the physical proximity of tango (though I haven't had any personal experience of dancing with beginners with erections, either). I'd appreciate it if you refrained from making generalisations about Argentines and Argentine culture, however. The tango scene here in Buenos Aires is huge, immensely varied, vibrant, ever-changing and wonderfully stimulating for those serious about the dance. And Argentines (male and female) come in a wide range of ages, levels of attractiveness, sexualities, social mores and attitudes towards tango.
Number of times arousal was a problem while dancing with a woman: 0.
ReplyDeleteAnd that includes all the times I danced with a lady whom I subsequently fell in love with quite madly and married, and whose hotness is still a source of disbelief to my absinthe drinking friends who take a look at me.
Tango is sensual, it is intimate, but if it's sexual then that is, I think, particular to you and the particular fantasy you built around tango (which might be shared by others, but if my sample of male dancers is representative, is not shared by many experienced _dancers_, though it is quite common in clichés that have taken root in non-dancers).
I think for many male dancers it might even be a way to express feelings of tenderness, intimacy and sensuality without having to link that with sex and all its complications, or appearing "unmanly" in other displays of tenderness (note heavy apologetic quoting).
Alexis,
ReplyDeleteI’m trying to use humor to discuss a delicate subject: information I think new tangueros would find useful. It is my belief that a lot more men would dance if they knew they could control their sex drive. I think their fear of embarrassing themselves keeps them from attempting an endeavor such as tango.
I want to show them arousal was a big problem for me and how I dealt with it. I also want to let them know that it is a normal response and there is nothing wrong with it but they still have to keep it under control. I try to give them a few humorous rules, or examples, to help them get past their difficult moments.
If you read my book, River Tango, you’ll see the problem discussed in the blog is also discussed in the book. I thank you for your post and adding to the discussion on such a sensitive topic.
"I want to show them arousal was a big problem for me"
ReplyDeleteWell, to help them I'd rather point out that sex and intimacy and different things and that arousal is _not_ commonly a problem, at least for people simply wanting to dance.
I think claiming arousal was a big problem for you is going to make matters worse if the aim is to get people to dance.
Especially if they have a girlfriend, since tango is in essence a social dance and they _will_ be expected to dance chests glued to the breasts of often beautiful women other than their girlfriends.
And yes, it _does_ work. My wife has stopped dancing tango ten years of so and she _knows_ I still dance chest to chest with other women (one of my regular dance partners was a photo model), and I can report that I've remained faithful _and_ married.
In other words, I don't agree with your assertion that getting an erection is "a normal response". I know few women who would consider such an experience pleasant if they ever realised what went on, even counting women from the Latin cultures you claim are more tolerant.
Nor do I claim it never happens to anyone, but my wife claims that paradoxically, despite its image, it's not that common in tango, while she has had a number of unpleasant experiences in other dances. You don't 'grind' at all in tango or thrust your pelvis forward, and a good leader dissociates the upper and lower body. The woman is supposed to be insulated from knowing where you're putting your feet and you lead from the chest.
So I'm also puzzled by your statement that "she knows". She probably will sense you're uncomfortable or tense (for good reason)...and if you're uncomfortable, then you're not going to have an enjoyable dance together, so feigning a wardrobe/shoe/respiration malfunction or the need to drink, saying thank you and aborting the tanda is probably the safest course of action.
Many of the men who’ve read my book thanked me for bringing the subject of arousal to light and a few briefly recounted experiences of their own. Several tangueras confided in me that their boyfriends experienced this same problem on their introduction to tango. I have evidence, not scientific, from which I draw my conclusions.
ReplyDeleteThis is not the case for my assumptions about women. There is nothing to back up the statements I make about what women think or feel. These assumptions are the basis for which my characters in ‘Tango Zombies’ and ‘The Witches of La Befana’ do the things they do. I have theorized(fantasized/imagined) that women exist on two different planes: one we know as reality and the other I call the intuitive plane.
The women in my stories intuitively are aware of another person’s physical state but they sometimes aren’t aware of it in the reality plane.
As you can see, I have a wild imagination. The style of this post was an attempt to be more spontaneous in my thoughts and to use metaphors as a means to avoid being too explicit. This is a difficult subject and writing this particular essay was not easy.
I am not a bump-and-grind-kind of guy. I take my tango seriously. I respect greatly each woman I dance with because I know the connection we make is a special thing, not to be taken for granted. She is allowing me to invade her space and I will be privy to things even she may not be aware of, or may be hiding from herself, so I make sure I enter her space with the utmost reverence for all that she is and all I may come to know of her.
Damn fine writing about the elephant in the room at the milonga! Good use of humor to defuse a subject many get bent out of shape about (no pun intended). Loved your style and content. As for my own take on dancing and erections, I think if you can't keep your mind focused on the dance while you're dancing, then tango is probably not where you should be concentrating your energies. To be sure, the peter meter functions sometimes of its own accord despite best efforts, but unless you're doing really deep leg wraps, your genitals should be nowhere near your partner - ever.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Joe, I am pretty sure this is not an uncommon event among men dancing tango, especially when they are new to the dance.
DeleteTerpsichoral, you are right again. Stereotyping is offensive and I apologize. I can't say that I will not do it again but I will put more thought and sensitivity into the words when I do. I am a writer. I abide by a motto, "To thine own self be true." When I try to hide parts of myself from the reader it affects what I am saying greatly. To say I don't think about people in stereotypes would be a lie...but it can be said with greater care. I do not do it with malicious intent, only to illustrate a point. That is my promise to you: in the future I will be more careful when I stereotype others.
ReplyDeleteWhen I mentioned Argentines, it was my intention to say that this dance developed in another country, another culture with a different set of mores than we have in America. I believe American culture has strong Puritanical overtones that are the result of our country being founded my religious zealots fleeing persecution in Europe. I assumed Argentina has a more lax code of ethics and that was wrong but I thank you for having the courage to point that out. I stand corrected. I had a paragraph explaining America's puritanical roots but it got deleted and it's absence skewed my statements about Argentines.
If I could, I'd retract my statement about the Germans; that was wrong. I cannot retract it because that would invalidate the rest of the discussion we are having. If I start changing the original text then newcomers will not know what we are talking about.
I would add a few words of practical advice if this really is a problem for you (that's a general, not a specific, 'you'): always masturbate at least twice before the milonga; wear tight underwear and, if you feel an erection starting, make an apology (a sudden and painful leg cramp?) and stop dancing with the woman then and there. But probably the best way to prevent an erection is to focus and concentrate: listen properly to the music and focus on interpreting it. Focus on keeping your technique good, your footwork neat, your body dissociating, etc. How many times have you seen someone playing a violin concerto or solving a maths problem with an erection? Concentration and focus on something non sexual are usually incompatible with arousal.
ReplyDeleteAs for the writing: always write what you know and respect the truth, as far as you know it. Stereotypes are tiresome and boring to read.
Terpsichoral, LOL! That is interesting advice coming from a woman. The problem was so bad for me that I 'prepped' with a 10 mile bike ride which dulled the nerves in my scrotum for at least four hours. I soon found out those nerves could be dulled forever so I stopped and renewed my membership with the Arctic Swim Team. If you were a guy you would know we can never admit to not-having masturbated but we have to deny having done it lately. We are protecting our machismo which is a subject I've discussed many times before. My post, Tinker Not Tinker-Bell, on 12/8/12, shows how worried I am about protecting my machismo.
ReplyDeleteIn spite of all my close calls, I never had an embarrassing incident where a woman walked off the floor because of what was happening.
You said it's "easier for the follower to become aroused (though of course far less obvious)" in your first comment and part of what I'm saying is it is just as easy for the leader to become aroused. I'm also saying it is natural but it must be contained at all costs. I'd like to add that a man's arousal is often a reaction to a woman's arousal. Her state might not register on a mental level but our bodies are often smarter than the brain in our heads.
When a woman becomes aroused, the texture of her skin changes, her face flushes and the temperature in her hand increases. If you're a guy, you'll notice, maybe not consciously but definitely subconsciously.
All in all, the object here is to let newbies know their problem is not unusual. Yes, there are some guys who never get aroused. I'm not talking to them. Thank you again for your advice. I can't say I've employed it lately but I have tried it in the past:-) LOL!!!
I'm glad you stopped the bicycle rides and that your scrotum is OK. To clarify, I don't think it's very common for followers to become sexually aroused (at least, it almost never happens to me, but perhaps I am untypical). I just meant that it must be even more unlikely if you are a leader. But clearly there are those who disagree, so what do I know? It's not a bad idea to talk about it in this forum, certainly.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad I stopped riding the bike, too, but it did get me past a difficult phase. Now that I've been dancing tango for five years, I don't find myself as easily infatuated with the women I dance with lately. If I am honest with myself and in my writing, then I would have to say I am worried about becoming impudent. Maybe it is all those viagra commercials on tv, maybe it is because I am single, I don't know but I do worry about it and therefore I must write about it. I notice a greater physical response in women who are new to tango than those that are experienced tangueras. I've written about those experiences as well and I think, by writing about it, I learned how to handle the situation with respect and deference to those partners.
ReplyDeletePerri, you obviously have a very strong involuntary sexual response. But (repeating something I wrote on Facebook) I'll just say that I personally really don't like the idea of dancing with someone who has an erection and it is something that has happened to me on one occasion only, as far as I am aware. I'm not even too keen on those people for whom the dance is primarily an opportunity for sexual closeness: for one thing, they tend not to dance with me or to stop dancing with me when they realise that I am not interested in sleeping with them and for another I think they are often not focusing enough on what is appropriate to the music.
ReplyDeleteAlso, while I can't be angry with someone for an involuntary physical response. But, on the other hand, some people dance in a way that makes it clear that their main aim is to get off on rubbing up against you and that I find creepy. I also like to dance in a way that is warm, intimate, sensual, without having my motives misunderstood and would not be happy if guys thought I danced with them because they aroused me sexually or because I wanted to arouse them.
Since I am not (North) American and live in Buenos Aires and, so far, almost all of the commentators on this issue in Facebook have been Europeans, I would suggest this is by no means a US-American issue, as you seem to imply.
I have been dancing tango for 10 years and to the best of my knowledge none of my partners have ever had an erection while dancing with me. One ... boy ... my age however did have one dancing bachata with me. He spent the next few days trying to get into my bedroom and I spent the next few days telling him to fuck off. It was overt, embarrassing, disgusting, and unmanly. There are religious cultural elements to disliking public erections but for me and many other women it's actually more about control. In my friends I certainly don't want to experience that sort of thing, but in potential partners it means they won't be able to maintain during intercourse and are more likely to cheat. It's just childish. Part of being an adult, man or woman is learning to control impulses. Young as I am I'm not interested in boys. Most men can handle this, but if you find yourself compromised I and many women would prefer if you discretely excused yourself to the restroom.
ReplyDeleteTerpischoral, I am not saying it is a problem anymore but you’re right, I do have a strong sex drive(eight kids in my family). I wrote the piece with the intention of alerting newbies to the problem and to let them know how to deal with it. Also, the fact that it doesn’t happen very often anymore kind of has me worried about impudency.
ReplyDeleteI am sure this is phenomenon is not isolated to the USA. The point I am trying to make about the US is that we have a puritanical side to our culture, probably stemming from the fact that this nation was first settled by Puritans. It is because of this fact that we, as Americans, have a difficult time discussing our sexuality in any forum that is not exclusively male or exclusively female.
Anonymous, thank you and I believe you are reinforcing the point I make in my post: if you(the guy) start to get aroused, try to cool it down somehow and, if you can’t, don’t bring any attention to it, maybe you’ll make it to the end of the tanda.
ReplyDeleteCould I ask, Perri, are you a strict Catholic? I am surprised by your constant equating of sex with reproduction.
ReplyDeleteI have to share Alexis Cousein's concerns about "alerting newbies to the problem". It may not be your problem alone, but anecdotal evidence does suggest that it is a pretty uncommon problem. And I have a few issues with the nature of the advice you give. Apart from the misleading suggestion that it's OK to dance with an erection when you visit BA which we already covered, I strongly disagree with what you say in point 3:
"If you’re with a single woman your age, forget about it! Let the dog out"
If the woman notices you have an erection, she will probably end the dance there and then and is very likely to warn her friends against dancing with you. If other women should notice or come to hear about it, they are likely to be creeped out and give you a wide berth. (Men may also find it creepy). Of course, no one may notice but you, but it is a risky strategy, quite apart from the fact that I imagine it is not too physically comfortable and may distract you from other elements of the dance. My advice is not restricted geographically.
A follow-up question: if you were to dance with a gay man who had an obvious erection, would you feel totally comfortable about it and dance with him often in future (assuming he was a very skilled follower -- I know good male followers are rare, but they *do* exist)?
I am also a little surprised that you don't seem to take my masturbation advice seriously. I imagine, for many men, a couple of orgasms before the milonga (or as many as necessary/physically possible) would help with this problem. If that didn't help at all in your case, I would postulate that you have an extreme hair-trigger erection response. Any newbies who share that characteristic might perhaps find that tango is not the best dance for them. I'm serious. There are other hobbies where the possibility of embarrassing public erections is much lower.
ReplyDeleteTerpischoral, this is not a problem for me anymore and I am writing primarily to let newbies know how to deal with the problem.
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to dance with a gay guy but I would find that extremely disgusting.
I didn't take your masturbation advice seriously because masturbation does not stop arousal, it simply reduces the size of the 'load'.
Once again, this is not a problem for me anymore. If it does happen and the woman is single and about my age or older, I let nature take its course and the erection never really becomes a problem because I am relaxed and soon forget about it. That is why the dog goes and lays down on the front porch. I don't allow myself to get aroused around younger girls or married women.
I stand corrected (no pun intended) on the masturbation issue.
ReplyDeleteI do find it interesting that you find other men's erections "extremely disgusting" in a tango context, but expect your female dance partners to be relaxed about your own erections, should these still occur (and those of beginner men). That seems like a very startling double standard to me.
Terpischoral, to answer your first question, yes I am catholic but not a practicing one. Are you really asking why I equate sex with reproduction? Unless you're homosexual, the sex act is the same act that accomplishes reproduction.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to enjoy this topic so I won't tell you again that this is no longer a problem for me. There is obviously a lot you don't understand about men and masturbation, which is okay, because you're not a man.
I don't think I'm expecting women to do anything, I'm expecting their disapproval, I am telling newbies how to deal with this problem in a socially acceptable way.
ReplyDelete"You seem to enjoy this topic". That is a very low blow. Check out my blog and you will find that it is not a topic I write about frequently.
ReplyDeleteI would still argue that allowing yourself to get an erection and not worry about it if the woman is of a similar age to you is not good advice for men beginning tango.
"The sex act is the same act that accomplishes reproduction." Not always and not necessarily, especially if you are using contraception.
"There is obviously a lot you don't understand about men". One thing I do understand is that not all men are alike and not all men agree with your claims here (see the Facebook comments for evidence of this). You can speak only for yourself and for those who identify with what your describe. You can't speak for all men.
I apologize for the low blow, you're right, it was a low blow. I'm responding too quickly. I take 8 hours to write one post, I only take 8 minutes to respond to a comment.
ReplyDeleteI disagree about the advice to men dancing with women their own age. Not focusing on the arousal will help it to subside without becoming a full-fledged hard-on. Remember Anonymous' comment about the man chasing her back to her room? That's what can happen if we're not careful. It is a guy thing. The more blood that is allowed to flow south, the less control the brain in our head is able to retain.
Contraception is not 100% ever, believe me, I know.
Your anecdotal evidence is just as good as my anecdotal but look at the fellows discussing this on your wall and I believe the number of men confessing to have experienced this is about even. Also, I'm talking about newbies, beginners. I'm not talking about veterans of 5 years and up.
Well, I'm done.
ReplyDelete"Your wood is just a lawsuit or a slap in the face waiting to happen so you’ve got to keep it under control," is the main point of my article. Any more input on my part would necessitate a more complete definition of arousal that I am not prepared to tackle because of the time it would take to do so responsibly.
I think I've learned that women are not always aware of when a man is getting aroused and that some women would be extremely angry if they knew, so my advice, "mums the word" should definitely be adhered to at all costs.
I've also learned that some men never get aroused and I think that is sad but I also find it comforting as I think it is better to have experienced the event than not to have experienced it.
I subscribe to your central message. Once again, thanks for bringing this subject to everyone's attention. It's been an interesting and fruitful discussion both here and on Facebook and I hope may also have brought your blog to the attention of some people who may enjoy reading it.
ReplyDeleteAbrazos milongueros!
Yes, you did! And thank you for exposing me to so many people who enjoy engaging in intelligent conversation. The pleasure was all mine! And I am enjoying your blog as well: http://tangoaddiction.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/the-tango-snob/
ReplyDeletevery interesting perspective:-)
Probably, many women get aroused and quite often, provided the tanda is a very good one. But, that arousal is not completely sexual in nature and it is seldom personal, that is, we do not want to go and actively lie down with THAT guy ;) We, as followers, have the chance to let ourselves go and feel, just feel.... so, it's natural that very close body contact, music, atmosphere will cause arousal, no matter who we're dancing with.
ReplyDeleteWell, 2 1/2 years later, I have to agree with you, Anonymous. Something is happening with the followers but I can't say exactly what it is. What I can say is that, when the dance is over, she has gotten everything she wanted from the situation and leaves the dinner table satiated. It is not the same for the man. The more pleasurable the experience, the more susceptible he becomes to infatuation. Infatuation goes beyond mere physical signs of arousal. It consumes, makes a man think about nothing else until he has to make it known how he feels. This is what it takes to get a man to talk about his feelings and the results are usually 'stormy'.
ReplyDeleteInfatuation because of tango goes both ways but maybe it happens less with women because the guys (and girls!) that entice us with their dancing, once the dance is over, go back to their "normal", unappealing selves. I have the impression that in most tango communities, there are many more appealing and available women than men.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, infatuation is different for men and women. It is God's gift to women that we should be larger but so easily controlled with this delightful yet troublesome emotion. It works for women of all ages, even the young daughters who so easily wrap their daddies around their tiny little fingers.
ReplyDeleteGender balance may be overweighted towards the females in tango but the actual number of tangueras available is usually one and she is usually being sought out by ALL the available males. Once she has made her choice it seems as if she is immediately replaced by another one. This is not to say that there aren't many women in tango who consider themselves available but they seem to shun the men subconsciously. Maybe it is a cosmic thing where women take turns being available so each can choose from a lot instead of a few.
There is nothing so sweet as a tanda with a lady who is looking for a man and is considering me as a prospect. It never works out for me but the occasion is a welcome one just the same.
Most women just want to dance, which confirms your point that female infatuation never drifts far from the dance floor.